Well, I might have lots of problems, and maybe one of them is bigger than this one, but for now this feels like my biggest problem.
It is this: I am still holding out for a Testimony of the True Church.
I have already concluded at least for the meantime that I believe the Mormon church is not at all what it claims to be, and thus is not, at least in the way it claims, “The True Church.” So that’s not what I’m talking about.
This is hard to articulate, and I expect that I will miscommunicate it terribly.
I have this mental block. I can tell myself all I want that it doesn’t matter what church you go to, as long as it brings you closer to Christ. I even believe it most of the time, intellectually. It makes sense to me, in light of the way I understand Christianity and the teachings laid out in the Bible. I can accept it into my schema. In fact, it actualy makes a lot more sense to me than any kind of denominational claim to exclusive Truth.
On days when I am feeling less Christian, I can apply the same reasoning to religion in general. What Jeff Lilly and Malaclypse the Younger say about it seem completely reasonable to me: that all religions are “true,” and that it is simply important that you commit to a belief system in which you grow and draw closer to God (however you choose to personify him/her/it).
The idea that one religion, much less one denomination of one religion, has a singular claim to absolute truth seems immeasurably unlikely, if not naïvely arrogant. I just don’t buy it. No religion seems universal enough to be universal, and those few that do are generally not very credible anyway.
So my course should be obvious. Depending on whether I decide for Christ or not, I should pick a denomination or religion that rings true to me, that meets my needs and seems closest to the truth as I understand it, and go with it.
So why can I not do that? I have several good candidates in mind (Episcopalianism/Anglicanism, Quakerism, and emerging Evangelicalism are all comfortable and appealing in different ways, and if I wasn’t going to be Christian, I’ve got Asatru, Druidry, and perhaps Buddhism after a longer more serious look); why don’t I just pick one?
I feel like I have a mental block, a stubborn thing laying around in my brain that I can’t get rid of. It’s like a little goblin in my head that insists on Absolute Truth. It won’t let me pick a good religion; it will only let me pick The True Religion. I try to tell this stubborn mental block that there is no True Religion, but this stubborn mental block doesn’t seem to care.
Even worse, this stubborn mental block will only be convinced of Absolute Truth when it is presented with some kind of Incontrovertible Mystical Experience. And it can’t be logically flawed, either. I try to tell the mental block that logically airtight Incontrovertible Mystical Experiences are not only really hard to come by, but in the end they aren’t as good a foundation for religious belief as deliberate faith and commitment are anyway. But the mental block does not seem to care what I say or think. It stubbornly insists on only accepting a church that is proven Absolutely True by Incontrovertible Mystical Experience, with no logical flaws. End of discussion.
Do you see my conundrum? What am I supposed to do? I have a standard for religion that is completely unrealistic, and one that not only guarantees that virtually all churches will fail, but that probably won’t result in a lasting commitment anyway.
Why is the mental block there? Why won’t it go away? It clearly smacks of Mormonism, which is no surprise since I have been a dedicated Mormon for most of my 28 years. But what does it mean? Am I simply so conditioned by Mormon-logic that I am more or less ruined spiritually, since Mormon-logic ensures that no other church could ever possibly pass its rigged and biased “test” for authenticity? Or does it mean that something in my soul, deep down, knows that Mormonism is true, and will thus never really be satisfied until I come back? But the problem with that is, now Mormonism even fails the mental block’s test, since my mystical proof is not at all incontrovertible, and I feel like Mormonism is completely full of holes, a veritable theological/philosophical swiss cheese.
When I was still an active member but my brother Racticas was in the process of leaving the Church, I supported him on the grounds that since Mormonism is absolutely and exclusively true, he would not find spiritual fulfillment anywhere else and so he would eventually come back. Is that what this is? Am I proving my own hypothesis? Or is spiritual fulfillment waiting for me somewhere (or even everywhere), as soon as I’m willing to take a leap of faith and plunge in instead of perpetually wetting my toes in the shallows of religious commitment?
Or is it merely a case of “once burned, twice shy?” After years of Mormonism followed by the life-changing crash of walking away from it, maybe I’m just too timid to easily pick a new religion and start again. Is my mental block really a Mormon-flavored manifestation of a very reasonable fear of religious commitment?
In any case, what do I do? I know I have no reason to rush things, but the more I think about religion, the more frustrated I get, and I’m afraid that if I don’t pick something and stick with it, I’m eventually going to throw my hands up in frustration and walk away a “committed” agnostic. And I don’t want that.
Is there a church that you guys have been going to regularly? Or are you still mostly in th exploring phase? I know that with Racticas and I, the first one or two times we go to a church, it’s hard to feel very spiritual. Maybe that’s what you need?
Of course, this is coming from the girl who hasn’t gone to church in a while. So you probably shouldn’t take my advice
We’ve been going to Cedar Ridge Community Church for 3-5 weeks or so.
If you don’t have access to incontrovertible evidence, then you might have to change your premise of what you want in a church. No one has absolute truth except for God, and if God doesn’t give it to you, then you’ll have to settle. Or at least that’s what I’d do. Don’t mean to superimpose myself onto you.
So it seems like your choices are to hold out for your mystical incontrovertible evidence experience, settle for a church you mostly get along with for a good community, just be religious on your own, or become agnostic.
I think if I was where you are, I might just stay in the Mormon church, because it does have a lot of good things, and not be a temple-going member.
(Not saying that’s what you should do…)
Hey, I think it would be a reasonable option, but I have too many problems with the Mormon church to do that myself (I really do not think that it is what it claims to be, and I disagree openly with huge portions of its theology), so I’d have to keep quiet about what i do and don;t believe, and I just wouldn;t feel right about that. And i feel like being in a church should mean participating fully, and as a nonbeliever you just can;t participate fully in the LDS church. Sure, I can attend meetings, but not really the rest.
Keep in mind that I’m conflicted- different parts of me say different and contradictory things. So it’s not as easy to reconcile as to simply “pick the best option.”
‘So it’s not as easy to reconcile as to simply “pick the best option.”’
Oh, definitely. Those are the options that I could think of, but deciding which one you want is a beast.
I guess I could stay because I’m okay with the majority of the theology, though some of the practices do get me. And what’s the definition of Mormon theology anyway?
Well, I almost wrote “theology,” because I think Mormonism has no real theology, but I didn’t want to come off as snarky.
Here’s a question, Kullervo. You’re looking for Truth? What kind of Truth? What would this truth look like if you found it?
Are you talking about answers to questions like “Where did we come from?” and “What was the origin of the universe?” and “Is humanity a fallen angel or an ascended ape?” and things like that?
Or are you more interested in “Why are we here?” and “What is the purpose of life?” and “How should we treat others?” and “How can we find the best way forward?”
Or are you looking for something completely different? What would the Absolute Truth look like?
Are you saying they have some sort of poly-theology instead? Because theology is “reasoned discourse concerning religion, spirituality and God or the gods.” And arguably no one is really reasoned.
That’s a tough question to answer, since it would require me to speak for Mister Mental Block, and he seems to be operating fairly independent of the rational part of me that is capable of taking part in discussions.
Fair enough. BTW I like the discourse we’re having. Good stuff.
As far as Mormon theology goes, I posted an old email I wrote to Racticas about it.
[...] jumping in the deep end as far as religion goes. Second, don’t forget my little friend, Mister Mental Block. Third, I’m afraid that in jumping in and simply living Christianity and telling myself [...]
If you are looking for Absolote Truth, Jesus said “I am the Way. the Truth and the Life. No one comes unto the Father but by Me. ” God said in the old testament of the Bible, ” I am the true God, I am the living God.” He also said “If you seek Me you will find Me if you seek Me with all of your heart. The Bible also says that the heart is decietful above all things and desperately wicked, so I would not suggest following whatever feels right.
Oh, I forgot to add that if theres a bigger problem than where you are going to spend eternity, I don’t know what it is. I’d be happy to help you think through your problem, it’s not one I’d put off for later because no one is promised a later.
borntwice,
Let me get this right– you think that Kullervo should be Christian despite the sometimes-dubious but certainly-impressive array of science-based reasons not to, right? So, he shouldn’t listen to the skepticism in his mind. I know you didn’t say this explicitly; I’m making this single assumption about your background. Also, you said he shouldn’t listen to his heart, right? Upon what resource should he draw to make an informed decision other than your opinion?
The Bible? Fair enough. Why should he trust the bible? His heart or his mind? Or is it just because his mom told him to? Or because *you* told him to? Or because you assume that the panicked fear of “no is promised a later” should warp his decision-making process like a high-pressure sales pitch? Like it seems to have done for you? Please clarify.
Whoa! I haven’t even asked you for any money yet!
I think he should be a Christian because I am convinced that all the “scientific evidence” against Christianity is made up, or supressed truth that suits the corrupt lifestyle of the ones supporting the “scientific research.” In order to live a morally bankrupt life with no fear of judgement a person must do something with the idea of God.Especially when he lays it all out in his word that there are laws to obey and penalties if you break them. I think people are born knowing there is God but spend their lives convincing themselves otherwise so they can go on doing what they know from their consciences is wrong.
As far as listening to the skepticism in his mind, the Bible says that there is a way that seems right to a man, but the end of it is death. To be clear, what I truly believe is that God puts it in our mind to know that He exhists. Then he adds to that the awesomeness of nature as a kind of confirmation. Mostly as humans what we tend to do is whatever feels right to us at the time, even knowing that there is a God and somewhere in the back of our mind also knowing that justice for wrongdoing is right.
The part about the no one is promised a tomorrow is not a high pressure sales pitch as you assert. I would not have him jump into a religion blindly for the sake of not being promised a tomorrow. The idea is for him to not procrastinate thinking about it until he’s not so busy or tired etc… I believe if he reads the Bible through and talks to the Author as he reads, with a genuine desire to know the truth, that he can’t help but find it.
I hope I have not come across as rude or mean. I really only wanted to help the guy who said he was thinking about it. Feel free to ask me another question or even tell me off… I can handle it.
Well, Borntwice, I’m just going to have to disagree with you.
While there certainly is a rational case for Christianity, I firmly believe that it is unconvincing unless you have already decided to believe, or are on the verge of doing so anyway.
Also, it seems like you are making the mistake of assuming that the two alternatives are Christianity and Atheism. Maybe for you those are the only reasonable choices, but lots of other people would disagree, including me.
Kullervo, did you know the Bible talks about you? Romans 1:18-22&28 says “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who supress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, beeing understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise they became fools…and just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not proper..”
Imagine for a moment this silly story about a gnat. You are the proud owner of this lovely gnat. You bought it with your hard earned money. You love this little thing, it’s so cute! You have a hard time communicating with him, though, because he won’t slow down long enough to hear your whisper and if you spoke any louder you’d kill the little thing from the force of your voice. Anyway, you just want to let him know a few things so you use other little gnats that will slow down to talk to it for you. Only the little guy won’t listen, in fact he gets angry and starts shaking his wings and cursing them and you for even bothering him. He has a very busy life (doing very important gnat things, of course.) He can’t see you very well because he has feeble gnat eyes that are good for dodging dust particles and such but not much else. Anyway, this gnat doesn’t have the time of day for you, so what do you do ? Do you force him to listen? Do you make him do what you want? Do you squash him? Or do you just let him go about his gnat business until he wears his little gnat self out and dies and you can talk to him because he’s finally still?
I know, stupid story, many imperfections I’m sure. But God made you. You belong to Him, and He has something to say to you. What if there is a God and it’s all true, what will you do? What will you say to Him when He questions you? There are some pretty terrorizing questions in the book of Job that God asks him. Like, “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth. Tell Me, if you have understanding.Who set its measurements, since you know? Or who stretched the line on it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.” Job 38:-7
And this conversation He had with a RIGHTEOUS man! How will you be able to stand and backtalk the God of the universe? How will you stand the force of his voice?
Okay, but I should believe that based on… what?
Truth is true if you believe it or if you don’t. If there is, and I repeat, IF there is a God, then how will you answer Him?
So you say. That’s a mighty hefty assertion.
Depends on how he talks to me. So far, I am not in the least bit convinced that he has.
borntwice, I think that you might be assuming that Kullervo is trying to decide between Christianity and atheism. But there are plenty of world religions out there that believe in God but don’t believe in the divinity of the Bible. You’re using a lot of Biblical quotes–and I think Kullervo’s question to you is, why should he believe what the Bible says? Who says that’s true? Why should he believe in the Bible over other theologies? Over other scriptures?
“How will you be able to stand and backtalk the God of the universe?”
Where did Kullervo backtalk God? By questioning? By searching for what is true and what feels right? If we aren’t allowed to question, to search, to ask, to pray, to ponder… what kind of God is that, anyway?
What is the hefty assertion? That truth is true?
*
Does God need to knock on your front door and ask you to lunch to talk to you? He has given His word, the Bible, to talk to you. He will even give you a new heart with new desires, if you will repent and put your trust in Him. If not, then eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you die.
Every major religion has followers who try to rid themselves of the guilt of sin through various measures. Jesus is unique in that He claimed to have power on earth to forgive sins. No other religious leader has made this claim. Jesus alone can forgive our sin. We can be free of the guilt of sin, not because of how good we can be or how much we deny ourselves, but because God showed His love toward us by dying on the cross for us.
I still contend that if you read God’s word with a genuine desire to know the truth, that you will find it. I do not believe that anyone who wants to know the truth will be left out against their will. People love their sin and don’t want to know the truth.
Fantastic, borntwice. Why should I believe the Bible? Because you say so? Because the Bible says so? That’s all I’m looking for. A why. Give me a why and I’ll go until the end. But not you, because you’re just some random internet stranger. Unless something
And borntwice, I think you need to go back to Comparative Religions 101. Not all, not even most religions deal with “the guilt of sin” as a central issue.
If i go to the Bible to find the truth, I have already decided that the truth is in the Bible. I’ve answered my own question before i’ve even begun.
I think you are completely leaving God out of the equation. I do not suggest that you dive into Christianity blindfolded and gagged. I say look into it with an open mind, taking all your skepticism to God and asking Him to reveal Himself to you. Asking Him, if He is real, to show you, to let you know. He created the world so I think He can find a way to communicate with you if you give Him a chance.