I’d like ot have a relationship with Jesus Christ, but I’m not sure I know what that means, or if I am necessarily convinced that it is possible. I mean, how do you have a relationship with someone that you can only read about? I can read about Justin Timberlake, and even buy all of his CDs and whatever, but that doesn’t mean we’re friends, that I know him, or that we’re in a relationship. Even if I am a rabid Justin Timberlake fan, that’s still not a relationship, regardless of how devoted I am.
All the relationships I have by comparison are with people who, at the very least, have a mortal existence that overlaps with mine. We can (or have been able to) communicate in an apparently concrete way, whether it’s face-to-face, written, telephone, or over the internet. If a relationship with Jesus can be like that, then great. If not, then what does it even look like, and how do I know it isn’t just wishful thinking, or more-or-less benign self-delusion
I probably won’t articulate this very well, but I think that, like all things God, a relationship with Jesus Christ can’t be hammered down into words. It is fundamentally different–perhaps precisely because we can’t see Him, etc.
But I get answers to prayers. I know that you also struggle with the idea of answers to prayers (how does one know that they are not just emotion or whatever). And maybe that’s all it is–but that is how God communicates with me.
kullervo,
I think that to have a relationship with Christ is to align your will to his. Elder Neal A. Maxwell gave a great talk on this subject back in 1995, if I may be permitted to quote from him:
To know the Savior is to do his will. Something fascinating happens the more you do His will. You start to understand him better.
This world of ours today is a very complex and cloudy world with multitude of voices all fighting for a moment of your time. If you really seek to know the Savior, do what he asks, and you will start to know him.
I think you said something along the lines of this earlier. I do hear from Christ and feel like I have a true relationship with him. But if I don’t make space to hear from him in the ways he says he wants to talk to me, I don’t hear his voice.
Godspeed.
Hi,
The only way to have a relationship with Jesus is to:
1. Repent.
2. Put your faith in him.
Repentance means turning from sin. Let’s say I had an affair, and afterwards, felt sorry and wanted to restore my marriage. I could go to my wife, and say, “I’m really sorry, but I’m a red-blooded man, and I’m probably going to do it again.” I don’t think my wife would take me back. What I need to say is, “I’m really sorry, and I’m never going to look at another woman again.” Then, my wife might take me back.
Of course, in order to repent, you need to be convinced of how sinful you are, and that you aren’t a good person, and that you deserve to go to hell. This is often accomplished by going through the Ten Commandments. Jesus said that unless you repent, you will perish (Luke 13:5). He also said to count the cost, before repenting. If you love your sins more than you want to go to heaven, don’t repent. But keep in mind that the consequences are eternal.
I put my faith in Jesus, like I would put my faith in a parachute. I’m trusting the parachute to save my life, and I’m trusting Jesus to save me from hell. This step is much easier than repentance.
Thanks,
Bill
As your heathen friend, I have to wonder why you want a relationship with Jesus Christ, except that it is the faith of your family and the tradition you grew up in. Do you seriously believe that your soul’s fate will be determined by belief in Jesus?
Indeed a fair question.
There are lots of reasons. One, Christianity appeals to me (while simultaneously repulsing me, but I’ve been over that before). It is the religion I grew up in, more or less, and (as my brother would say) it is the religious currency of our culture. Also, I like Christmas. Particularly, the religious parts.
But more importantly, lately I’ve been reading lots of Donald Miller, and the approach to Christianity he talks about is one that is primarily relational.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, it’s not that I’m worried that I’ll go to hell if I don;t make friends with JC. It’s that i think that having a relationship with God through Jesus Christ just might be the best thing there is to have. In the here and now, even.
I poo-poo the existence of an eternal hell where devils poke me in the bum with pitchforks forever and ever. I acknowledge the possibility of a hell that is dark and lonely, forever separated from everything important. I’m not scared of going there because I know i’m trying my hardest to figure out who God[s] is/are and to get to know him/her/it/them.
So like i said, the destination of my immortal soul is actually not something I’m generally concerned about.
But I’ve been reading about how a relationship with Jesus is really good, and really important. The Thing We’re All Really Looking For, such as it is. Is so, I’d like that.
I don;t know if I can reject Christianity out of hand, but I likewise don;t know if I can pursue an outward, mechanistic version of Christianity. If I’m going to be a Christian, it has to be because I am absolutely caught up in love with Jesus. I just don;t know how to get there from here.
There is no God-shaped hole in your heart. You can live a life of sin, and be perfectly happy until the day you die.
But, Jesus said:
-”I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” John 3:3
-”I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6
-”But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” Luke 13:5
-”But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.” Matthew 12:36
-”Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.” John 3:36
The Jesus of the Bible seems intolerant and judgmental. Why would you want a relationship with him unless you believe that you’re a wicked sinner, deserving of eternity in hell.
I think you’ve mad up a god to suit yourself, which is a violation of the 2nd Commandment. Your god would never make a place like hell.
You think you’re a pretty good guy, and your god would never send you to hell, but Jesus said, “No one is good—except God alone.” (Luke 18:19). We’re all wicked, and deserving of hell. If that offends you, you can stick with the god you’ve made up, but it won’t be Christianity, and it won’t have anything to do with the Bible.
Thanks,
Bill
Kudos for having the right reasons for wanting to be a Christian and for not just wanting the ritual part of it.
Thinking about more about this and my perception of you, if your intention is to find a system of ethics by which you can navigate the world in a socially positive fashion and the system of ethics you ultimately come to is Judeo-Christian than by living those ethics you will have found Christ.
At least in my loosey-goosey heathen world-view. Okay gotta go, cat doing something stupid behind me.
I don’t know if that really is my intention. I feel pretty secure that I can “navigate the world in a socially positive fashion” based on an internal sense of right and wrong… What i’m looking for in a religion is some kind of spiritual fulfillment.
Maybe I’m looking in the wrong place.
In retrospect, I think that lack of relationship is a big underlying reason that I left Christianity; I knew plenty of people who *did* have a relationship with JC, or believed they did, but he didn’t seem interested in such a relationship with me; so I kept looking until I found it. This is all hindsight, of course.
Without specualtion, personal interpretations, or half-hearted meanings…
I think the James 1:5 isd quite absolute in its meaning, Kullervo. I think that it applys to anything we need, in your case it is to find that “spiritual fulfillment.” Its not about making space, or doing a complicated act in order to ‘recive’ him. Its about simply knocking and it shall be opened. If you really want it you will find it.
Best,
John
Nope. James 1:5 says if you need wisdom, God will give it to you. Widsom. It doesn’t promise knowledge, temporal blessings, revelation, spiritual gifts, that God will give you answers to your query, or a relatonship. It promises wisdom.
Maybe some other scripture.
Kullervo,
Actually, lets examine (without trying to interpret) what the word wisdom means. The definition is as follows:
Wisdom consist of: Experience, knowledge, and good judgment, and the soundness of an action or decision with regard to the application of such experience, knowledge, and good judgment. (Oxford 2005)
Lets look at the thesaurus:
Sagacity, intelligence, sense, common sense, shrewdness, astuteness, smartness, judiciousness, judgment, prudence, circumspection; logic, rationale, rationality, soundness, advisability. Antonym: folly, stupidity, erudition, sophistication, scholarship, lore.(Oxford 2005)
What dose knowledge mean: Knowledge applies to any body of facts gathered by study, observation, or experience, and to the ideas inferred from these facts.
Hence, wisdom is a form of knowledge.
Moreover, I would like to point out that the definition refers to “Good Judgment,” “Application of knowledge,” and “knowledge”. Lest look at the synonyms for ‘wisdom’ which are: intelligence, logic, prudence —all of which are valuable things to have when in need of a possible answer. Wisdom is the ability to judge, God isn’t necessarily going to come into your room and slap you in the face with some awesome revelation that you have a relationship with Christ; that’s why “prudence” so important when speaking about wisdom, which coincides with “if ye seek then ye shall find” — this statement requires prudence, effort, and diligence. Thus, if ye lack wisdom (to judge, apply knowledge, or intelligence) then let him ask of God… If you lack those things then ask.
“Yep…”
John
Nevertheless, john, I find you unconvincing. You are splitting hairs.
Nowadays, we can consume music in such a passive form. You do not even have to go out to the music store. Just point, click, and listen.
Maybe a slightly more useful metaphor is not buying Justin Timberlake CDs (and WHY on earth did you choose him, of all possible celebrities), but going to a concert…where the artist IS in a relationship with each concert goer. You aren’t on his level, you aren’t his friend (in the sense we usually mean it), but you are in a relationship with him. Of course, any metaphor is going to be inadequate.
Funny you mentioned Justin Timberlake, because there are a lot of fans who, by reading about him, thinking about him, dreaming about him, listening to his music, and watching his videos DO feel like they have a relationship with him. this is pretty common is popular culture, even if you poo-poo it.
I find it conceivable that the “relationship with Christ” could operate on the exact same laws. By obsessing over an individual with whom you have no interaction, you develop a sense of involvement that is not only fictional, but does not even depend on the other person to be alive or even exist.
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